“We all need our own philosophy”
Bowen Dwelle in conversation with Latham Turner of Get Real, Man
This conversation is part of an ongoing series of conversations with fellow writers including several on Substack such as
and Sex at Dawn author as well as others including addiction expert Dr. Adi Jaffe, master coaches Michael Lipson and Robert Ellis, ultra-runner Charlie Engle and legendary sci-fi author Kim Stanley Robinson.
Today’s conversation is between
the writer behind and who writes at , which includes his serialized memoir of the same name.Latham and I got together recently for a deep and wide-ranging conversation covering writing to explore, how “adventure doesn’t happen by accident,” writing as men and the transition into being an older man, using research in storytelling, how “we all need our own philosophy,” the challenge of positive confrontation and “the Goat Work,” how we relate to our immediate geography, long-distance walking, wayfinding, personal spirituality, the gods we’re praying as — and, of course, what we’re working on next.
If you value authentic, honest, deep, vulnerable conversations between working writers, we think you’ll get a lot out of this discussion.
Following the interview are links to some of our writing, some other writers of memoir on Substack, and some questions for you. We’d love to hear from you!
Our Conversation
Use the audio player at the top of the page, or watch the interview here ⬇️
⭐️⭐️ THANK YOU FOR LISTENING⭐️⭐️
Some of our own writing
Latham: The Men’s Movement is Dead; Long Live the Men’s Movement
Bowen: The Man Pays—on the bittersweet joy of being child-free
Latham: What Will You Die For —on developing a personal philosophy of life
Bowen: I’m Here to Tell the Truth—the introduction and table of contents to my serialized memoir, An Ordinary Disaster.
Latham and I will both be posting a piece this coming week on the theme of “Recovery” from a group of men including ourselves, Joshua Doležal Michael Mohr Dee Rambeau and
. You may recall our previous series on “Fatherhood” from September. Be on the lookout for Latham’s piece on December 11 and Bowen’s on the 13th!Subscribe for more
Latham writes
— a newsletter about growing up after you’ve become an adult. It’s part memoir, part essays, but always exploration of an authentic life.Bowen’s writing at
includes memoir and personal essay on men, adventure, addiction, depression, love and money.Other writers we recommend on Substack
and Just Enough to Get Me in Trouble
The Bright Life
Make Me Good Soil
Further Reading and Listening
📚 The Denial of Death, by Ernest Becker
📚 The Flowering Wand: Rewilding the Sacred Masculine, by
📚 Of Boys and Men by
🎧 Finding Your Soul in The Darkness w/ Francis Weller on Mark Groves podcast
🎧 The Evolution of Masculinity w/ Chris Ryan on The Mythic Masculine podcast
📚 Bowen’s complete “for men” reading list.
We’ve got some questions for you
If you’re a writer, what has writing done for you? And if you’re a reader, what do you get from your time spent reading?
What is your own relationship to adventure and exploring? What’s familiar—and what would be a new challenge?
How much does the place where you are impact you, as a writer and as a person?
If you have children (or even if you don’t, but just care about a child in your life), what are the stories and models you want to raise them with?
What makes you feel like a whole person? What have you learned becoming your whole self that you would share with others?
Who else needs to be in this conversation about masculinity and men? Who would you point out as positive role models?
Did you enjoy this conversation?
Use the heart ♡ below to let us know
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This was excellent! Latham, my first order of business: instituting Fuck Up Fridays! Bowen, I’m so intrigued by The Flowering Wand, thanks for the recco! You’ve really got me snagged on the positive role model question. Latham and I have touched on this before in comments… from a women’s perspective, I know I’ve been let down by so many men in my life. But I know they likely didn’t have the role models they needed either. I’m grateful you and your fellow male writers are doing your part to alter that cycle. We need more Atticus Finches!
Well done Latham and Bowen, this is a great interview. There were many nuggets dropped into the conversation. The first one that got my attention was when you said at the beginning you wrote because you mistakenly, thought you knew the answers. (I apologize if I got this wrong but that's what I thought Latham meant). I chuckled as I recognized my initial motives for writing to be similar, I hope I have grown and moved past that innate perspective but it's likely something I have to constantly be on the watch for. Hopefully, I can blame decades of clinical practice and telling others what to do for a living on this personality trait!
Bowen, I loved your definition of spirituality as being a move toward Wholeness! Yes to this, as well as praying into the wise man you will become Latham. I'm pretty sure you two could have easily talked for another hour!