E14 / Wayfinding with Kim Stanley Robinson
E14 / Wayfinding with Kim Stanley Robinson
How he became a writer, the "Cardboard Set Problem," the deep pleasure of wayfinding, the erotic charge of being in the mountains, "being a dog," and moving from dominance to resistance.
Today I'm speaking with Kim Stanley Robinson, a true legend of a writer, and also as an advocate for better stewardship of planet Earth and for sustainable cohabitation with all the species that inhabit this unique gem of a planet. Stan has published more than twenty books and has received great recognition for both his creative work, his advocacy, and although he's quick to qualify it as the work of a novelist, the fact is that he has made quite a mark with his science as well.
Stan and I met through the Long Now Foundation here in San Francisco and reconnected through our mutual love of the High Sierra, in particular through the shared experience of independently coming across Paiute obsidian knapping sites simply by following our intuition in looking for good places to rest while out hiking.
Especially since I'm working on building a third career as a writer, I value very highly Stan's life experience as a working artist who's met with such success—and also as someone who embodies warmth, curiosity, irreverence, adventure, poise, truth, and openness, just to name a few of the values that I see in him.
As you listen, you might scan the questions at the bottom of the show notes, or just consider this: what is your relationship with the natural world? How does it feel to be in nature and to be part of nature? And how does that inform you in your daily life, and as you look towards the future?
In addition to all of my writing and podcast episodes, paid subscribers get super cool DECIDE NOTHING pins, access to occasional bonus and AMA posts and chats—and the opportunity to order a copy of my book when it comes out for just the cost of shipping. If you’re enjoying my writing and podcast and would like to see more episodes like this one, please consider becoming a paying subscriber.
Show Notes
The Cardboard Set Problem — “science fiction has a standing weakness in formal terms in that you know that it's made up. It's set in the future. It's maybe on another planet. When you're reading, you know it's made up.”
Imagining Mars based on the High Sierra and the American West.
How he became a writer.
Poetry, and how “if you're interested in writing poetry, then paying attention to the moments that might turn into a poem is one of the most important things you have to do.”
On formal training as a creative writer — “I don't think you can do much to teach writing of fiction. I don't believe in the MFA.”
Geography — “It's one of the main projects we have in civilization today, is to do better at geographical comprehension and expertise.”
A story about getting “locally lost” in the Palisades Basin. “There’s expert overconfidence and then there's just ordinary overconfidence.”
The “deep pleasure” of wayfinding—and how, unlike in the mountains, “you can’t backtrack” with life errors. “Experience often teaches you stuff that is no longer relevant.”
His avoidance of risk, perhaps due to “being easily scared, so that the risk is not felt as a stimulant…” but more to the very personal experience of seeing a friend die of leukemia at age fifteen, and how that gave him a “hunger” to live. He used to judge climbers for something like an inability to appreciate the subtle, but has since come to see that his judgment was “very inappropriate,” much like judging someone for their sexual preferences. He had to re-educate himself by paying more attention.
Making a devotional practice of “being a dog”—and the spiritual nature of sport.
The erotic charge of being in the mountains, having a relationship, even a “love story” with a place, and how “to love the inhuman” is strange and worth exploring.
How the “dream of transcendence,” becoming immortal through disembodiment is a lie, because “we're never gonna download our brains into computers.”
How returning to civilization from the mountains used to be like a “return to hell,” but he has since freed himself from that dualism, and “going to the Sierras is no longer an escape,” because he realized “I was gonna be just as fine at home as I was up in the wild.”
How much of what has happened in the way of negative side effects of civilization has been “by accident,” because science is an ongoing experiment, but that now we have a “moral choice” to move past the capitalist, patriarchal entitlement of not having to change, of thinking something like “if I have to change or else the world is wrecked, then the world is gonna be wrecked and I am not gonna change.” We need to realize that “the health of the planet is the health of your own body.”
How Gary Snyder taught him about moving “from dominance to resistance” in masculinity, and how Gary’s presence has been a guiding light.
The Kingdom of San Francisco as the cultural capital of California, and how lucky we are to have been able to live here.
Finding Stan
You can find Kim Stanley Robinson’s books everywhere. He’s not on social media himself, but there is a fan site at https://kimstanleyrobinson.info, as well as a KSR subreddit, and he speaks regularly at events in San Francisco and elsewhere.
Further Reading
Kim Stanley Robinson, 2312
Kim Stanley Robinson, The High Sierra: A Love Story
Kim Stanley Robinson, The Ministry For the Future
Davis, Scott, Snyder, Opening the Mountain: Circumabulating Mount Tamalpais, A Ritual Walk
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In addition to all of my writing and podcast episodes, paid subscribers get super cool DECIDE NOTHING pins, access to occasional bonus and AMA posts and chats—and the opportunity to order a copy of my book when it comes out for just the cost of shipping. If you’re enjoying my writing and podcast, please consider becoming a paying subscriber.
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Now — I’ve got some questions for you…
If you’re a writer, what sort of formal training have you pursued, and how useful has it been for you? (I’ve taken a bunch of independent classes and workshops, probably the best of which overall have been Jack Grapes’ Method Writing).
Have you ever been macro lost? (I have to say, I haven’t, and I’m sort of wondering how I might actually get that lost… It’s not that easy).
Have you experienced how wayfinding in the physical world can contribute to a better sense of finding one’s way in life?
What’s your own relationship with risk and danger?
Have you ever experienced an erotic charge from being in the mountains? (I’ve written a bit about this in this piece, and Liz Goldwyn writes well about this in her book Sex, Health, and Consciousness).
What is your relationship with the natural world? How does it feel to be in nature and to be part of nature? And how does that inform you in your daily life, and as you look towards the future
Have you ever consciously given something up? How did that feel, and what were the results? (I write about one of my own experiences giving something up in The Last Time).
What’s your favorite science fiction book? (Aside from KSR, one of my favorites is Bruce Sterling’s Schismatrix Plus)